The official documentation has moved to http://docs.couchdb.org — The transition is not 100% complete, but http://docs.couchdb.org should be seen as having the latest info. In some cases, the wiki still has some more or older info on certain topics inside CouchDB.

You need to be added to the ContributorsGroup to edit the wiki. But don't worry! Just email any Mailing List or grab us on IRC and let us know your user name.

Meeting Minutes via -- DaveCottlehuber 2012-10-14 21:28:34

Futon2

Doc Versions

What versions of documentation should we aim to provide?

CouchApp Tool & Format

CORS

1.3.0

Test Suite

Merge All the Forks

Admin

Other Stuff

IRC summary

[2012/10/10 21:02] dch: I assume we have a quorum, so I suggest anybody who has a topic they want to cover just replies #topic <stuff>
[2012/10/10 21:03] eckoit: #topic bundle erica
[2012/10/10 21:03] dch: #topic cors & docs
[2012/10/10 21:03] dch: #topic paperwork - how suitable is this time & date?
[2012/10/10 21:04] dch: #topic 1.3.0 priorities
[2012/10/10 21:04] eckoit: #topic default couchapp format
[2012/10/10 21:05] jan____: #topic look at my horse
[2012/10/10 21:08] dch: #topic send out a proper timezone announcement, duly noted
[2012/10/10 21:09] dch: #topic doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:10] noe: #startmeeting
[2012/10/10 21:12] jan____: #topic futon2
[2012/10/10 21:12] noe: #startmeeting
[2012/10/10 21:12] dch: #startmeeting
[2012/10/10 21:14] noe: #chair bitdiddle davisp dch dch fdmanana jan____ JasonSmith jsonified kocolosk tilgovi
[2012/10/10 21:17] noe: #info dch indicates broad consensus that we want to merge in futon2 https://github.com/bigbluehat/futon2
[2012/10/10 21:18] noe: #info jan____ wants us to kick off an exploratory work to see if this will work
[2012/10/10 21:19] noe: #action eckoit will talk to bigbluehat and find out current status of futon2 for next week
[2012/10/10 21:20] dch: #info mainerror eckoit put hands up for helping futon2 integration
[2012/10/10 21:20] noe: dch: i #action-ed that already :)
[2012/10/10 21:22] noe: #action mainerror to post summary of frameworks options about futon to mailing list
[2012/10/10 21:22] dch: #action use @noe as the bot and forgo the pythonscript
[2012/10/10 21:23] noe: #topic doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:23] noe: #topic futon2
[2012/10/10 21:24] noe: (we need to do both, as the bot would do the subject for us. the #topic command is for the post-processing later)
[2012/10/10 21:24] ASFBot: >> fix typo, closes pr #29
[2012/10/10 21:25] noe: #topic doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:25] dch: #question what versions of couch should we aim to provide docs for?
[2012/10/10 21:29] noe: #info everyone in the channel agreed docs should target the 1.3 line and later
[2012/10/10 21:29] noe: #info everyone in the channel agreed docs in 1.3 should only cover changes since 1.2
[2012/10/10 21:30] noe: #info dch plans to go ahead with doc plans unless anyone objects on the mailing list
[2012/10/10 21:31] dch: #action dch to find way to track when features were introducted in docs
[2012/10/10 21:32] dch: #action dch to note who's working on what wrt to doc features/changes
[2012/10/10 21:33] dch: #topic couchapp format
[2012/10/10 21:38] dch: #info proposed to defer fixing a couchapp format post 1.3, and work on a consensus approach
[2012/10/10 21:41] noe: #info ekoit and chewbranca both expressed interest in leading couchapp effort with benoitc
[2012/10/10 21:44] dch: #action noe to send out release cadence as discussed in Eire with rnewson
[2012/10/10 21:46] dch: #action: dch to include link to release cadence
[2012/10/10 21:46] tilgovi: does that deserve an #action?
[2012/10/10 21:47] noe: #topic cors
[2012/10/10 21:48] noe: #info benoitc will branch the cors code tomorrow
[2012/10/10 21:49] dch: #topic meeting time/day
[2012/10/10 21:49] dch: #action dch to humbly apologise in minutes for jumping the gun, and see if we have any people in asia timezone who are left out
[2012/10/10 21:50] dch: #info general consensus from those who made it that this time works for them (!)
[2012/10/10 21:51] noe: # 1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:51] noe: #topic 1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:51] dch: #topic  1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:54] noe: #action dch will go through JIRA and mark items that block 1.3 release
[2012/10/10 21:54] mainerror: noe: For the minutes, http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/FrontPage#Getting_Involved ... http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/IRC_Meeting_Minutes
[2012/10/10 21:54] noe: #action nslater will assist dch with JIRA efforts
[2012/10/10 21:54] dch: #action wendall911 and Wohali to get stuck into packaging
[2012/10/10 21:55] noe: #action nslater to announce 1.3 blockers JIRA workflow, and invite contribution to final feature list
[2012/10/10 21:57] phenny: noe: [#COUCHDB-1346] CouchDB hangs during start of view indexing - ASF JIRA
[2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite,
[2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite,
[2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite
[2012/10/10 22:02] dch: #info try to keep this short in future
[2012/10/10 22:04] dch: how about #info kocolosk and benoitc to send summary of testing in their forks to dev@ to start the ball rolling? I see this as a 1.3+
[2012/10/10 22:05] noe: are you gonna #action that?
[2012/10/10 22:05] dch: #topic pouch into futon
[2012/10/10 22:06] dch: #action kocolosk  to send summary of testing in their forks to dev@ to start the discussion
[2012/10/10 22:06] noe: #info wendall911 has offered to help with the tests
[2012/10/10 22:08] noe: #info pouch in futon discussion tabled until dale can join us
[2012/10/10 22:08] dch: #rhetorical
[2012/10/10 22:09] dch: #topic merge all the forks
[2012/10/10 22:15] noe: #info bigcouch merge dependant on community consensus around build system
[2012/10/10 22:15] noe: #info build system discussion to be brought to a close asap after 1.3
[2012/10/10 22:19] dch: #info refer to https://github.com/seth/rebar-tools for dependency locking
[2012/10/10 22:19] noe: mainerror: ask in #asfinfra
[2012/10/10 22:21] noe: #action wendall911 to take point on cleaning up build 0.9 cruft
[2012/10/10 22:22] noe: #action Wohali to help wendall911 with build system work
[2012/10/10 22:22] dch: #action kocolosk to provide woolly update on how cloudant and bigcouch and couchdb fit together in the NEW WORLD ORDER
[2012/10/10 22:25] noe: #action noe to set up a LYSE mailing list
[2012/10/10 22:27] noe: #endmeeting
[2012/10/10 22:31] tilgovi: benoitc: what is this?? https://github.com/refuge/rcouch/blob/master/package/deb/Makefile#L8

Full Transcript

[2012/10/10 21:00] dch: I hereby declare the first IRC meeting of the CouchDB Pirates open, avast ye SQL users!
[2012/10/10 21:01] dch: Um we were going to have a cool little bot to track everything, but between times my computer is very dead so I'll do it by hand
[2012/10/10 21:01] Kxepal: dch: my head explode if I'll go rewrite one legacy java service that doesn't respect http protocol and works like rpc xml server
[2012/10/10 21:02] Kxepal: so ok(:
[2012/10/10 21:02] dch: I assume we have a quorum, so I suggest anybody who has a topic they want to cover just replies #topic <stuff>
[2012/10/10 21:02] johntiger: Dave, not sure what topics you want to cover but docs seem active - also could we discuss CORS
[2012/10/10 21:02] dch: then we'll go through them 1 by 1, I'll change the irc title so you know where we are
[2012/10/10 21:02] dch: johntiger: welcome, I love the irc handle :-)
[2012/10/10 21:03] eckoit: #topic bundle erica
[2012/10/10 21:03] dch: #topic cors & docs
[2012/10/10 21:03] dch: #topic paperwork - how suitable is this time & date?
[2012/10/10 21:04] dch: #topic 1.3.0 priorities
[2012/10/10 21:04] dch: I'll call a close on topics at 10 past latest.
[2012/10/10 21:04] eckoit: #topic default couchapp format
[2012/10/10 21:05] jan____: #topic look at my horse
[2012/10/10 21:05] mainerror: :o
[2012/10/10 21:06] noe: huh we started already?
[2012/10/10 21:06] noe: i thought it was 9pm my time
[2012/10/10 21:06] noe: dch: have you started the meeting?
[2012/10/10 21:06] noe: i.e. via the meeting bot?
[2012/10/10 21:06] noe: Kxepal: pong
[2012/10/10 21:07] mainerror: <dch> Um we were going to have a cool little bot to track everything, but between times my computer is very dead so I'll do it by hand
[2012/10/10 21:07] noe: dch: if so what is the bot's name?
[2012/10/10 21:07] noe: oh, that's a shame
[2012/10/10 21:07] jan____: noe: the email said 9pm dch's time
[2012/10/10 21:07] noe: the bot produces minutes its very cool
[2012/10/10 21:07] noe: UTC, which i translated as 9 utc for me
[2012/10/10 21:07] noe: or, rather, 9 for me
[2012/10/10 21:08] noe: nae bother
[2012/10/10 21:08] jan____: "at 9pm Vienna time"
[2012/10/10 21:08] green_turtle: utc+2
[2012/10/10 21:08] noe: okay
[2012/10/10 21:08] noe: sorry to derail
[2012/10/10 21:08] Kxepal: noe: I'd to ask about versions of couch that docs have to cover, but with dch advice we'll stop at 1.2 and 1.3 for now. is it ok?
[2012/10/10 21:08] dch: #topic send out a proper timezone announcement, duly noted
[2012/10/10 21:08] emjayess: jan____: you've a horse outside?
[2012/10/10 21:09] dch: #topic doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:09] jan____: emjayess: inside :)
[2012/10/10 21:09] mainerror: A pony?
[2012/10/10 21:09] noe: dch: when do we start?
[2012/10/10 21:10] jan____: aaaanyway
[2012/10/10 21:10] green_turtle: Kxepal: Cloudant use 1.0.2 so maybe it makes sense to includ it?
[2012/10/10 21:10] Kxepal: green_turtle: not problem for me, just need to setup limit how deeper to dig google and git log(:
[2012/10/10 21:10] noe: #startmeeting
[2012/10/10 21:11] noe: dch it is not here
[2012/10/10 21:12] jan____: #topic futon2
[2012/10/10 21:12] mainerror: Oh god, I forgot about Futon2!
[2012/10/10 21:12] noe: #startmeeting
[2012/10/10 21:12] dch: cool,
[2012/10/10 21:12] dch: #startmeeting
[2012/10/10 21:13] noe: o_O
[2012/10/10 21:13] dch: so topics, futon2, doc versions, couchapp format, horse, cors, meeting time/day, 1.3.0 prios, bundle erica,
[2012/10/10 21:13] noe: dch the bot isn't working
[2012/10/10 21:13] noe: it should announce the meeting has started
[2012/10/10 21:14] dch: aah well no pb, we'll survive
[2012/10/10 21:14] noe: okay, i will issue commands as if it is here
[2012/10/10 21:14] dch changed the topic tomeeting - futon2
[2012/10/10 21:14] noe: i hope you saved the original topic
[2012/10/10 21:14] dch: ok so futon2, jan____  you have the floor
[2012/10/10 21:14] dch: @noe: natch
[2012/10/10 21:14] potatoeye: Pfft. They are royally boned.
[2012/10/10 21:14] noe: #chair bitdiddle davisp dch dch fdmanana jan____ JasonSmith jsonified kocolosk tilgovi
[2012/10/10 21:15] jan____: Woha! — So, we all agree that we need more Futon, and to get that we agreed to start over
[2012/10/10 21:15] noe: we did?
[2012/10/10 21:15] jan____: hence futon2. Currently residing at https://github.com/bigbluehat/futon2
[2012/10/10 21:15] tilgovi: oh, hi
[2012/10/10 21:15] noe: tilgovi: we're having a couchdb meeting
[2012/10/10 21:15] dch: the chairs recognise tilgovi, and forgives him for his absence
[2012/10/10 21:15] jan____: last commit 3 months ago, for a while it looked like there was good progress and I’d like to find out where we are and what tneeds doing
[2012/10/10 21:15] tilgovi: I see this
[2012/10/10 21:15] noe: jan____: is there broad consensus that we want to merge this in?
[2012/10/10 21:15] jan____: noe: kindasortainformally
[2012/10/10 21:16] noe: if not, should we attempt to build it?
[2012/10/10 21:16] dch: yes.
[2012/10/10 21:16] dch: its done sort of as a couchapp which isn't a bad move IMHO anyway.
[2012/10/10 21:16] mainerror: nods
[2012/10/10 21:16] noe: if we did this, would it be pre or post 1.3?
[2012/10/10 21:16] jan____: noe: yeah, this is a "lets see if we can build it" and then merge if we get it
[2012/10/10 21:17] jan____: noe: doesn't matter, it ships when it is done (visavis timed releases that we kindasorta do :)
[2012/10/10 21:17] kocolosk: heh
[2012/10/10 21:17] dch: I think post 1.3 unless TAMO (Then A Miracle Occurs). Given need for more changes as a result of BC merge, it makes sense to do it once & right
[2012/10/10 21:17] jan____: sooo, is anyone from the futon2 team here?
[2012/10/10 21:17] noe: #info dch indicates broad consensus that we want to merge in futon2 https://github.com/bigbluehat/futon2
[2012/10/10 21:17] dch: question: do we have any front-end devs who would be willing  / keen to get involved?
[2012/10/10 21:17] eckoit: raises hand
[2012/10/10 21:18] dch: woot!
[2012/10/10 21:18] Kxepal: +1
[2012/10/10 21:18] noe: #info jan____ wants us to kick off an exploratory work to see if this will work
[2012/10/10 21:18] mainerror: Well, I'm not exactly from the Futon2 team (officially) but I wanted to go for integrating Bootstrap and replacing jQuery UI.
[2012/10/10 21:18] jan____: (fwfw, I just installed the latest version and it looks fairly solid)
[2012/10/10 21:18] noe: eckoit, mainerror is this something you think you could look at between now and next week?
[2012/10/10 21:18] jan____: (code wise, it is still the old old sammy.js based one that mikeal started)
[2012/10/10 21:18] dch: mainerror: I'm +0 on framework changes, but we do need to realise that futon2 is used along with the test suite as an example of how to play with couch.
[2012/10/10 21:19] eckoit: noe: yes, I will talk to bigbluehat and see where its at, and whats left, etc
[2012/10/10 21:19] noe: thanks!
[2012/10/10 21:19] dch: mainerror:  what does bootstrap (I thought it was largely UI elements) have to do with this?
[2012/10/10 21:19] jan____: I am +1 to switch to whatever gets this shipped :)
[2012/10/10 21:19] noe: #action eckoit will talk to bigbluehat and find out current status of futon2 for next week
[2012/10/10 21:19] mainerror: Can't promise next week due to a stressful timetable next week.
[2012/10/10 21:19] dch: anybody else interested in putting their hand up?
[2012/10/10 21:19] mainerror: dch: I don't quite understand the question.
[2012/10/10 21:20] noe: mainerror: anyone else wanna help eckoit out
[2012/10/10 21:20] Wohali: for futon? not my area of expertise
[2012/10/10 21:20] dch: #info mainerror eckoit put hands up for helping futon2 integration
[2012/10/10 21:20] noe: dch: i #action-ed that already :)
[2012/10/10 21:20] kocolosk: dch: good point, and i think we don't necessarily want to encourage more jquery.couch.js usage
[2012/10/10 21:20] mainerror: jQuery UI is extremely ugly in terms of code
[2012/10/10 21:20] wendall911: I'm a leaning to +0 on framework changes. I'm sure sammy.js is great and all, but really having yet another framework in the mix might be bad
[2012/10/10 21:20] Wohali: is jquery a dead dog?
[2012/10/10 21:20] wendall911: something clean that could be incorporated into any framework as a base would be ideal
[2012/10/10 21:21] kocolosk: Wohali: no, certainly not - but the jquery.couch thing is getting long in the tooth
[2012/10/10 21:21] wendall911: Wohali: jquery-ui != jquery
[2012/10/10 21:21] eckoit: mainerror: bikeshedding on bootstrap, we can discuss as we dig into it
[2012/10/10 21:21] Wohali: ahhhh
[2012/10/10 21:21] dch: let's not beat this to death, mainerror do you are you happy to send a summary to the ML on the evils of framework X and the wisdom of some alternative option?
[2012/10/10 21:21] noe: +1 for eckoit
[2012/10/10 21:21] kocolosk: nods
[2012/10/10 21:21] jan____: I think backbone(+chaplin) are what one would use today instead of sammy.
[2012/10/10 21:21] kocolosk: nods
[2012/10/10 21:21] wendall911: agrees
[2012/10/10 21:21] Wohali: i'm still stunned there is activity in here and things are moving along
[2012/10/10 21:21] jan____: but again, whatever feels best for the people who actually wrok on it
[2012/10/10 21:21] jan____: *work
[2012/10/10 21:21] noe: Wohali: ?
[2012/10/10 21:21] mainerror: dch: I guess I could yes.
[2012/10/10 21:22] noe: #action mainerror to post summary of frameworks options about futon to mailing list
[2012/10/10 21:22] dch: #action use @noe as the bot and forgo the pythonscript
[2012/10/10 21:22] dch: ok, shall we move along?
[2012/10/10 21:22] eckoit: one more thing
[2012/10/10 21:22] noe: dch: the bot will format all of this!
[2012/10/10 21:23]dch changed the topic tomeeting - doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:23] dch: eckoit: shoot
[2012/10/10 21:23] noe: can someone sumarise the issues here?
[2012/10/10 21:23]dch changed the topic tomeeting - futon2
[2012/10/10 21:23] noe: #topic doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:23] noe: #topic futon2
[2012/10/10 21:23] eckoit: I did a lot of work with pouch db to get get tracis tests going
[2012/10/10 21:23] dch: <mea culpa>
[2012/10/10 21:24] eckoit: would like to do the same with futon2 and the couch test suite
[2012/10/10 21:24] noe: (we need to do both, as the bot would do the subject for us. the #topic command is for the post-processing later)
[2012/10/10 21:24] dch: k, lets put that as a separate item on agenda
[2012/10/10 21:24] dch: ok?
[2012/10/10 21:24] eckoit: kind of a cross topic between futon3 and testing, ok
[2012/10/10 21:24] eckoit: seperate item
[2012/10/10 21:24] eckoit: (futon2) :)
[2012/10/10 21:24] ASFBot: 3jan@apache.org origin/master * ca88701 (2 files) https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=couchdb.git;a=commit;h=ca88701 :
[2012/10/10 21:24] ASFBot: >> fix typo, closes pr #29
[2012/10/10 21:24] tilgovi: can we get pouch into futon2 :)
[2012/10/10 21:24]dch changed the topic tomeeting - doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:25] noe: #topic doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:25] dch: tilgovi: lets add that as an other topic aight?
[2012/10/10 21:25] tilgovi: yep
[2012/10/10 21:25] noe: okay so can someone explain the doc versions question to me?
[2012/10/10 21:25] dch: #question what versions of couch should we aim to provide docs for?
[2012/10/10 21:25] Kxepal: noe: for how many couchdb releases sphinx-docs have to be shipped?
[2012/10/10 21:26] dch: I'm suggesting 1.2.0 & then any changes for 1.3.0. That's already quite a bit of work.
[2012/10/10 21:26] Kxepal: e.g. 1.3 and 1.2 ok. is for 1.1? 1.0?
[2012/10/10 21:26] noe: right, this comes back to my argument that each release should document itself, and perhaps some notes about previous versions
[2012/10/10 21:26] dch: 1.1 in principle we could ship "as is", just removing a couple of bits.
[2012/10/10 21:26] noe: but you should be able to get the docs for previous versions... from previous versions
[2012/10/10 21:26] dch: I'd question whether that is worth the effort.
[2012/10/10 21:26] Kxepal: quetsion is how many this vesionadded versionchanges have to be
[2012/10/10 21:27] Kxepal: need some base release to start count
[2012/10/10 21:27] noe: just between 1.2 and 1.3 i guess
[2012/10/10 21:27] noe: as if 1.2 had full docs
[2012/10/10 21:27] jan____: -1 on going back until we have this streamlined for current versions
[2012/10/10 21:27] wendall911: we've all been using the wiki or referencing source for years. Having 1.2+ docs would be acceptable.
[2012/10/10 21:27] dch: I would be happy to work on backporting the scripts & bits from 1.3.0 to 1.1.1 if there's a feeling we need that. But after 1.3.0
[2012/10/10 21:27] noe: i dont see any point
[2012/10/10 21:27] noe: docs for 1.3 lines and later
[2012/10/10 21:27] tilgovi: +1
[2012/10/10 21:27] dch: any naysayers?
[2012/10/10 21:28] wendall911: yeah, 1.3 forward is good :)
[2012/10/10 21:28] mainerror: +1
[2012/10/10 21:28] dch: noe: how do we note that as a decision?
[2012/10/10 21:28] Kxepal: and it doesn't matter to assign in which version thing was changes or introduced?
[2012/10/10 21:28] noe: dch: we dont. we cant make decisions in this meeting.
[2012/10/10 21:28] dch: noe: ack, my bad
[2012/10/10 21:28] noe: dch: but we should note it as info and let people on the ml object
[2012/10/10 21:29] noe: #info everyone in the channel agreed docs should target the 1.3 line and later
[2012/10/10 21:29] green_turtle: what kind of docs do you mean?
[2012/10/10 21:29] dch: Kxepal: shouldn't be a problem, we can add appropriate version links to the website as needed
[2012/10/10 21:29] green_turtle: wiki?
[2012/10/10 21:29] noe: #info everyone in the channel agreed docs in 1.3 should only cover changes since 1.2
[2012/10/10 21:29] Kxepal: dch: ok, got it
[2012/10/10 21:29] tilgovi: Kxepal: it would seem to me a requirement that additions/changes to the docs note the version in which they were introduced... if that's what you mean?
[2012/10/10 21:29] Kxepal: tilgovi: yes
[2012/10/10 21:30] dch: green_turtle: we are talking about a finalised version of http://couchdb.readthedocs.org/en/latest/index.html, donated from couchbase, and to match 1.3.0
[2012/10/10 21:30] green_turtle: i mentioned that Cloudant uses 1.0.2
[2012/10/10 21:30] noe: #info dch plans to go ahead with doc plans unless anyone objects on the mailing list
[2012/10/10 21:31] dch: #action dch to find way to track when features were introducted in docs
[2012/10/10 21:31] dch: any other doc-related points before we move on?
[2012/10/10 21:31] tilgovi: oof... the configuration options need some help with the descriptions
[2012/10/10 21:31] kocolosk: green_turtle: we'll fix that
[2012/10/10 21:32] green_turtle: cool
[2012/10/10 21:32] noe: tilgovi: we should have some changes to that landing shortly
[2012/10/10 21:32] dch: tilgovi: yeah, people are working on that atm
[2012/10/10 21:32] tilgovi: oustanding
[2012/10/10 21:32] dch: #action dch to note who's working on what wrt to doc features/changes
[2012/10/10 21:33]dch changed the topic tomeeting - couchapp format
[2012/10/10 21:33] dch: #topic couchapp format
[2012/10/10 21:34] dch: eckoit: you're up
[2012/10/10 21:34] noe: i think we should punt this until post-1.3 maybe?
[2012/10/10 21:34] eckoit: ok this is from the heated ml discussion
[2012/10/10 21:35] eckoit: I just wanted to back up and say we need to serve two masters with this those just doing views, lists, etc and those doing couchapps
[2012/10/10 21:35] eckoit: and I think they have different needs
[2012/10/10 21:35]hitchcock.freenode.net sets mode+o ChanServ
[2012/10/10 21:35] dch: summarising, there are 2 main formats used, and a host of others. kanso/couchapp.node.js == single file per ddoc, couchapp == directory hierarchy.
[2012/10/10 21:36] eckoit: well we have to start with the traditional couchapp I think
[2012/10/10 21:36] dch: I think bumping this post 1.3.0 will not harm anybody. But we did agree in the summit to go ahead with <something>.
[2012/10/10 21:36] noe: right
[2012/10/10 21:36] noe: i would like some consensus building around this activity
[2012/10/10 21:37] dch: benoitc has said he's willing to integrate erica (the current erlangbased incarnation of couchapp)
[2012/10/10 21:37] eckoit: I am fine with talking about this later then. But was hoping to get erica with 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:37] noe: and then we can make a proposal and Just Do It™
[2012/10/10 21:37] noe: but i dont want to distract benoit from his current efforts, wrt 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:37] dch: kanso is awesome, however it is dependent on node.js.  still a fast moving target
[2012/10/10 21:37] dch: so what's next steps here eckoit, anybody?
[2012/10/10 21:37] eckoit: I agree, I dont want kanso as the default
[2012/10/10 21:37] noe: punt until 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:37] dch: but we shouldnt break it eithe.
[2012/10/10 21:37] noe: then we should start a consensus building process
[2012/10/10 21:37] noe: and draft a proposal
[2012/10/10 21:38] noe: (or more than one if we're split)
[2012/10/10 21:38] dch: #info proposed to defer fixing a couchapp format post 1.3, and work on a consensus approach
[2012/10/10 21:38] eckoit: sure
[2012/10/10 21:38] dch: anybody interested in pushing that along? It's worth a jira ticket and improving your erlang.
[2012/10/10 21:39] noe: i would like to see eckoit and benoitc lead this effort
[2012/10/10 21:39] noe: they're at the helm of our meaningful couchapp work
[2012/10/10 21:39] dch: this is a good area (relatively free from dependencies on core couch) to get another erlangy person up to speed.
[2012/10/10 21:39] jan____: +1
[2012/10/10 21:39] noe: yeah, good point
[2012/10/10 21:39] chewbranca: I would be interested in helping out as well
[2012/10/10 21:40] dch: chewbranca: you live!! welcome brother :-)
[2012/10/10 21:40] noe: eckoit: you know erlang?
[2012/10/10 21:40] noe: does not
[2012/10/10 21:40] wendall911: I think from what benoit was pointing out, that we could conceivably support more than one approach with OTP
[2012/10/10 21:40] eckoit: noe: nope
[2012/10/10 21:40] dch: wendall911: easily, yes.
[2012/10/10 21:40] chewbranca: dch hahaha yeah finally stepped from under my lurking rock
[2012/10/10 21:40] wendall911: cool, so I think that's worth pointing out
[2012/10/10 21:40] mainerror: is currently learning Erlang
[2012/10/10 21:41] noe: eckoit: you interested in picking it up with the benoitc for this couchapp stuff? :)
[2012/10/10 21:41] noe: man, typo city tonight for me
[2012/10/10 21:41] eckoit: noe: sure. I will get my hands dirty
[2012/10/10 21:41] chewbranca: I'm picking up erlang right now as well, I should be able to help out a bit with the couchapp stuff on both the javascript app side and some level of the erlang side
[2012/10/10 21:41] dch: eckoit: ok, let's tag team then, and use this as a LYSE opportunity.
[2012/10/10 21:41] noe: #info ekoit and chewbranca both expressed interest in leading couchapp effort with benoitc
[2012/10/10 21:41] dch: I *love* our meetingbot
[2012/10/10 21:42] dch: any furthers?
[2012/10/10 21:42] eckoit: I say if we can bundle erica  with 1.3 as is, and then next release tweak the formats
[2012/10/10 21:42] dch: further questions?
[2012/10/10 21:42] eckoit: is anyone opposed to that?
[2012/10/10 21:42] noe: that sounds contentious
[2012/10/10 21:42] noe: what would be the point of that?
[2012/10/10 21:42] noe: seems like we'd be going off half-cocked
[2012/10/10 21:42] noe: may as well wait until we've decided what we want to do fur realz
[2012/10/10 21:42] benoitc: will publish first the cors patch tomorrow
[2012/10/10 21:42] eckoit: hmm, well we need something to load futon2
[2012/10/10 21:42] noe: and again, i dont want to overburden benoitc
[2012/10/10 21:43] benoitc: erica why nto depends on the release time
[2012/10/10 21:43] dch: let's put that to the list.
[2012/10/10 21:43] noe: futon2 for 1.3?? i am not sure that was discussed
[2012/10/10 21:43] noe: lets not be over-ambitious
[2012/10/10 21:43] dch: noe:  not futon2, erica
[2012/10/10 21:43] noe: after 1.3 we'll switch to timed releases anyway
[2012/10/10 21:43] dch: (ie couchapp erlang tool)
[2012/10/10 21:43] dch: ok, lets move on
[2012/10/10 21:43] benoitc: also just arrived sorry
[2012/10/10 21:43] noe: dch: eckoit says we'll need erica for futon2... in 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:43] jan____: I would refrain from pinning features to releases.
[2012/10/10 21:43] benoitc: +1
[2012/10/10 21:43] dch: jan____: good reminder
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: jan____: with a release cadence, _1
[2012/10/10 21:44] wendall911: +1
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: ... erm +1
[2012/10/10 21:44] benoitc: it can wait the next release imo
[2012/10/10 21:44] dch: ready to move on to next topic?
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: right no biggy
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: yep, DOIT
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: (15 minutes left on the clock, for 1hr meeting, if we're time boxing)
[2012/10/10 21:44] dch: #action noe to send out release cadence as discussed in Eire with rnewson
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: wait what?
[2012/10/10 21:44] dch: skips jan's horse
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: ive done that already
[2012/10/10 21:45] dch: noe: OK, great. I will look that up & include a link
[2012/10/10 21:45] noe: what i really need is someone who can help me with git, and actually instituting changes post 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:45] dch: noe: happy to do that, I'm all gitted up now
[2012/10/10 21:45] jan____: noe: happy to git-guide
[2012/10/10 21:45] tilgovi: i'm feeling gitty
[2012/10/10 21:45] dch: getting gitty wid it
[2012/10/10 21:45] noe: rnewson and davisp would be ideal for that, but anyone can help if they dont mind picking up some of the release process stuff at the same time
[2012/10/10 21:45] mainerror: Same here. Just shout if you need help.
[2012/10/10 21:45] Wohali: ch stole my joke
[2012/10/10 21:45] Wohali: dch*
[2012/10/10 21:45] noe: okay seems like i have plenty of volunteers
[2012/10/10 21:46] Wohali: noe: as a recent git convert I'm willing to help out at some point as well
[2012/10/10 21:46] noe: again, this should be the first thing we do post 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:46] dch: #action: dch to include link to release cadence
[2012/10/10 21:46] johntiger: is this right time to say it would be good to get release road map somewhere on web ?
[2012/10/10 21:46] noe: release cadence also includes our new Merge Policy
[2012/10/10 21:46] tilgovi: also, anyone been working on the deb situation?
[2012/10/10 21:46] noe: there is a wiki page on this that has not been properly fleshed out
[2012/10/10 21:46] Wohali: tilgovi: noe promised to start a packaging ml
[2012/10/10 21:46] dch: johntiger: yup, I think it will take us a bit to get organised
[2012/10/10 21:46] tilgovi: does that deserve an #action?
[2012/10/10 21:46] noe: tilgovi: can we keep to the topics pls!
[2012/10/10 21:46] Wohali: tilgovi: the debian package maintainer agreed to support us "promptly"
[2012/10/10 21:46] tilgovi: :-[ sorry.
[2012/10/10 21:46] noe: dch: can yo update the topic?
[2012/10/10 21:46]dch changed the topic tomeeting - cors
[2012/10/10 21:46] dch: CORS
[2012/10/10 21:47] noe: #topic cors
[2012/10/10 21:47] dch: CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS
[2012/10/10 21:47] benoitc: slaps dch
[2012/10/10 21:47] tilgovi: (is sthere an agenda?)
[2012/10/10 21:47] benoitc: so tomorrow :)
[2012/10/10 21:47] dch: tilgovi: yes, so topics, futon2, doc versions, couchapp format, horse, cors, meeting time/day, 1.3.0 prios, bundle erica, test suite, pouch into futon, merge all the forks
[2012/10/10 21:47] noe: tilgovi: yep, we have a list of topics we're going through
[2012/10/10 21:47] noe: benoitc: anything to update us on for cors?
[2012/10/10 21:47] tilgovi: got it
[2012/10/10 21:48] dch: benoitc: I got lost in teh erlangs with this, can we help out in some way? [docs, tests, ...]
[2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: noe: i will branch the code tomorrow
[2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: need to extract from my own code
[2012/10/10 21:48] noe: #info benoitc will branch the cors code tomorrow
[2012/10/10 21:48] dch: tests seem problematic, I can't see how we are going to do that within the current test suite.
[2012/10/10 21:48] noe: benoitc: do you need any help?
[2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: noe: so far it includes tests
[2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: noe: nope
[2012/10/10 21:48] noe: k
[2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: just some coffee
[2012/10/10 21:48] noe: hehe
[2012/10/10 21:48] noe: do we need to discuss the tests or can we move on?
[2012/10/10 21:49]dch changed the topic tomeeting - meeting time/day
[2012/10/10 21:49] benoitc: dch: tests are written in erlang ,i'm faking the request
[2012/10/10 21:49] dch: #topic meeting time/day
[2012/10/10 21:49] noe: i like wednesdays
[2012/10/10 21:49] benoitc: just like fthe vhost module
[2012/10/10 21:49] dch: benoitc: purrrfect
[2012/10/10 21:49] tilgovi: right now seems to be working pretty well?
[2012/10/10 21:49] noe: and this time works for me
[2012/10/10 21:49] Wohali: in the future I can do this time as well
[2012/10/10 21:49] noe: we are notibly missing two pmc members. rnewson (on holiday) and davisp
[2012/10/10 21:49] dch: #action dch to humbly apologise in minutes for jumping the gun, and see if we have any people in asia timezone who are left out
[2012/10/10 21:49] tilgovi: JasonSmith
[2012/10/10 21:50] tilgovi: ?
[2012/10/10 21:50] dch: option is to vary the slot once a month to spread that out
[2012/10/10 21:50] kocolosk: this is normally a good time for davisp, and workable for rnewson as well
[2012/10/10 21:50] noe: kocolosk: thanks
[2012/10/10 21:50] benoitc: next month i will be on asia time though
[2012/10/10 21:50] noe: not sure what to do about JasonSmith
[2012/10/10 21:50] mainerror: Personally I'd prefer one our later but I can try to make this time too.
[2012/10/10 21:50] noe: really though, the minutes we post should be enough for him to participate
[2012/10/10 21:50] dch: #info general consensus from those who made it that this time works for them (!)
[2012/10/10 21:50] noe: that is *the whole point* of them
[2012/10/10 21:50] noe: and why decisions cannot be taken here
[2012/10/10 21:51] tilgovi: dch: who's surprised, really.
[2012/10/10 21:51] jan____: benoitc: is your latest CORS code based on the work dale and I did around CouchHack Vienna or something else?
[2012/10/10 21:51] dch: those people should move to europe
[2012/10/10 21:51] kocolosk: dch: "everyone who isn't here raise your hand"
[2012/10/10 21:51] kocolosk: ;)
[2012/10/10 21:51] dch: moving along...
[2012/10/10 21:51] noe: kocolosk: heh
[2012/10/10 21:51] benoitc: jan____: dale based it on mine, i took some of its change
[2012/10/10 21:51]dch changed the topic tomeeting -  1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:51] benoitc: main change though is that it is acting like a middle ware
[2012/10/10 21:51] noe: # 1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:51] noe: #topic 1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:51] jan____: benoitc: cool, thx
[2012/10/10 21:51] dch: #topic  1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:52] benoitc: so it wrap the request object like vhost instead of passing values in the air
[2012/10/10 21:52] noe: CORS, docs, what else?
[2012/10/10 21:52] dch: I think that's it.
[2012/10/10 21:52] benoitc: what is the status of the macosx bin for 1.3 ?
[2012/10/10 21:52] dch: the nasty view server bug is fixed  stefankoegl at least hasn't had issues IIRC
[2012/10/10 21:52] benoitc: the one with the ui dl on the website
[2012/10/10 21:52] tilgovi: CORS, docs, packaging
[2012/10/10 21:52] noe: tilgovi: packaging?
[2012/10/10 21:53] dch: benoitc: it builds fine via homebrew I don't expect we'll have issues.
[2012/10/10 21:53] benoitc: ok
[2012/10/10 21:53] tilgovi: we've talked about it a lot. isn't that related to the macosx bin question?
[2012/10/10 21:53] noe: i think we should go through JIRA and mark tickets that block 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:53] noe: i can then create a filter and share it with the list so we can burn through them
[2012/10/10 21:53] noe: who wants to lead that effort?
[2012/10/10 21:53] dch: wendall911: would you be willing to lead the packaging tests? in particular we have ubuntu 12.04 ready to bit us
[2012/10/10 21:53] dch: noe: on jira cleanup, I'll do it.
[2012/10/10 21:54] dch: probably tomorrow, now that my restore is (largely) complete
[2012/10/10 21:54] wendall911: dch: I'd love to
[2012/10/10 21:54] noe: #action dch will go through JIRA and mark items that block 1.3 release
[2012/10/10 21:54] mainerror: noe: For the minutes, http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/FrontPage#Getting_Involved ... http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/IRC_Meeting_Minutes
[2012/10/10 21:54] kocolosk: i thought rnewson took a stab at that already, too
[2012/10/10 21:54] dch: ooooh
[2012/10/10 21:54] Wohali: dch: I recently got our bigcouch built and working on ubuntu 12.04, I can lend wendall911 a hand if desired
[2012/10/10 21:54] noe: #action nslater will assist dch with JIRA efforts
[2012/10/10 21:54] noe: mainerror: ?
[2012/10/10 21:54] dch: #action wendall911 and Wohali to get stuck into packaging
[2012/10/10 21:54] dch: ok?
[2012/10/10 21:54] Wohali: fine
[2012/10/10 21:54] dch: 1.3.0 blockers I have a biggier.
[2012/10/10 21:54] mainerror: Prepared a wiki link for it.
[2012/10/10 21:55] wendall911: Several people have voiced interest in this. Would be nice to have a discussion tomorrowish about packaging with those interested.
[2012/10/10 21:55] noe: #action nslater to announce 1.3 blockers JIRA workflow, and invite contribution to final feature list
[2012/10/10 21:55] benoitc: how do you define packaging exactly?
[2012/10/10 21:55] noe: mainerror: kthx
[2012/10/10 21:55] wendall911: heh
[2012/10/10 21:55] wendall911: benoitc: distro packages
[2012/10/10 21:55] benoitc: k
[2012/10/10 21:55] dch: yeees. perhaps somebody with more experience will overlook my handwavey statements
[2012/10/10 21:55] noe: do we need packaging@couchdb.a.o?
[2012/10/10 21:56] dch: e.g. I would love to dump my glazier build scripts and have it work in couch core. But I'll need rebar & 1.3. for that.
[2012/10/10 21:56] benoitc: hum i think it's fine to have it on dev@
[2012/10/10 21:56] dch: for me COUCHDB-1346 is a blocker.
[2012/10/10 21:56] benoitc: dch: so i have quite finish the apache-couchdb-sdk
[2012/10/10 21:56] dch: .o jira COUCHDB-1346
[2012/10/10 21:56] noe: Wohali: perhaps prefix emails with [PKG] for the time being
[2012/10/10 21:56] phenny: Failed to find ticket: 'COUCHDB-DEV-COUCHDB-1346'
[2012/10/10 21:56] benoitc: for unixes
[2012/10/10 21:56] kocolosk: d'oh
[2012/10/10 21:56] dch: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-1346
[2012/10/10 21:56] jan____: PHENNY
[2012/10/10 21:57] noe: .title
[2012/10/10 21:57] dch: .o jira 1346
[2012/10/10 21:57] phenny: noe: [#COUCHDB-1346] CouchDB hangs during start of view indexing - ASF JIRA
[2012/10/10 21:57] phenny: Failed to find ticket: 'COUCHDB-DEV-1346'
[2012/10/10 21:57] dch: anyways.
[2012/10/10 21:57] noe: dch: mark it as blocking 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:57] benoitc: oh
[2012/10/10 21:57] Wohali: noe: Wilco
[2012/10/10 21:57] noe: Wohali: ?
[2012/10/10 21:57] dch: TL;DR windows needs a lazy delete to handle open views. I know *what* needs to happen but can't make it work.
[2012/10/10 21:57] tilgovi: I have a couple blockers
[2012/10/10 21:57] dch: not important right now.
[2012/10/10 21:57] noe: tilgovi: mark them in JIRA
[2012/10/10 21:57] dch: tilgovi: spit it out man!
[2012/10/10 21:58] noe: tilgovi: target versions field
[2012/10/10 21:58] mainerror: noe: Wilco - Will comply. :)
[2012/10/10 21:58] noe: dch: no need to discuss these now
[2012/10/10 21:58] tilgovi: they are
[2012/10/10 21:58] tilgovi: they are!
[2012/10/10 21:58] noe: dch: we need to just clean up jira and use that as our tool for deciding what is in and out
[2012/10/10 21:58] noe: dch: "target versions" should be set to 1.3 or something post-1.3, depending
[2012/10/10 21:58] dch: we had topic "bundle erica" but I think consensus was to bump that post 1.3. next is: test suite,
[2012/10/10 21:59] noe: i think so too
[2012/10/10 21:59]dch changed the topic tomeeting -  test suite
[2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite,
[2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite,
[2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite
[2012/10/10 21:59] tilgovi: what about this one? https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-1485
[2012/10/10 22:00] dch: so: 2 things: pouchdb & others (eckoit), and eunit changes (benoitc/dch)
[2012/10/10 22:00] kocolosk: dch: unit / integration / regression / system, all of the above?
[2012/10/10 22:00] kocolosk: ah
[2012/10/10 22:00] dch: kocolosk: we can discuss all of that if reqd, I gues
[2012/10/10 22:00] benoitc: i would go for common tests & eunit though
[2012/10/10 22:00] jan____: tilgovi: sounds like the change was intended by you?
[2012/10/10 22:00] dch: tilgovi: up to you, mark it as blocking if reqd
[2012/10/10 22:00] kocolosk: i'm intrigued by common test after reading http://learnyousomeerlang.com/common-test-for-uncommon-tests
[2012/10/10 22:01] tilgovi: Okay. I'll take a look at it. My only other one is marked for 1.3. I'll take care of it.
[2012/10/10 22:01] noe: tilgovi: mark the fix version as 1.3 if you think it's blocking, and add a comment
[2012/10/10 22:01] eckoit: I just wanted to say that I had some success with a good test suite for pouchdb and would replicate that for futon2 running the browser based tests
[2012/10/10 22:01] noe: we are officially into over-time (based on 1hr meeting length)
[2012/10/10 22:01] wendall911: One issue that came up quite a bit in the 1.2 release was tests that can randomly fail for various reasons. Would be nice to side step that regardless the solution.
[2012/10/10 22:02] noe: lets try to keep this snappy people, we all have real lives to attend to :)
[2012/10/10 22:02] dch: #info try to keep this short in future
[2012/10/10 22:02] benoitc: kocolosk: looks useful in our case
[2012/10/10 22:02] bitdiddle: kocolosk: +1 on CT, just finished that article also
[2012/10/10 22:02] dch: so one of you happy to send a note to ML on options vs erlang tests then?
[2012/10/10 22:03] dch: I would guess what you have sidestream in refuge/bigcouch/cloudant is significant.
[2012/10/10 22:03] kocolosk: enh, not that significant on our side
[2012/10/10 22:03] dch: eckoit: we'll come back to you shgortly.
[2012/10/10 22:03] kocolosk: bit of eunit, bit of proper, nothing too substantial
[2012/10/10 22:04] kocolosk: i'd only say so far that i'm intrigued by CT -- I'm not ready to propose that we dive headfirst into it for system tests and discard all of the JS
[2012/10/10 22:04] dch: how about #info kocolosk and benoitc to send summary of testing in their forks to dev@ to start the ball rolling? I see this as a 1.3+
[2012/10/10 22:04] kocolosk: can do on that
[2012/10/10 22:04] dch: kocolosk: I think we'll always need JS (or node flavoured) tests, even for pouch / browser compatibility. Having the option is important.
[2012/10/10 22:05] dch: let's move on then
[2012/10/10 22:05] kocolosk: yep
[2012/10/10 22:05] noe: are you gonna #action that?
[2012/10/10 22:05] benoitc: not sure i will have time until the end of the months for tests
[2012/10/10 22:05]dch changed the topic tomeeting -  pouch into futon
[2012/10/10 22:05] benoitc: for now working on extracting rcouch patches
[2012/10/10 22:05] dch: benoitc: not a problem then. Adam can start, let it settle for a bit.
[2012/10/10 22:05] dch: #topic pouch into futon
[2012/10/10 22:05] noe: are you going to action the test stuff dch?
[2012/10/10 22:05] mainerror: Don't we need Dale for this?
[2012/10/10 22:06] wendall911: I'll be dealing with the tests for packaging requirements. I could help test the tests.
[2012/10/10 22:06] noe: mainerror: quite maybe
[2012/10/10 22:06] dch: #action kocolosk  to send summary of testing in their forks to dev@ to start the discussion
[2012/10/10 22:06] dch: meta-test
[2012/10/10 22:06] noe: #info wendall911 has offered to help with the tests
[2012/10/10 22:06] dch: so I don't recall who proposed this, eckoit? you have the floor
[2012/10/10 22:06] noe: we should punt pouch until dale can join us
[2012/10/10 22:06] dch: +!
[2012/10/10 22:06] noe: no?
[2012/10/10 22:06] dch: +1
[2012/10/10 22:07] mainerror: +1
[2012/10/10 22:07] dch: more importantly this is a point about "what is couch"
[2012/10/10 22:07] eckoit: I did not propose, but would be happy to add to futon2 :)
[2012/10/10 22:07] eckoit: but actually +0 on the reason
[2012/10/10 22:07] noe: dch: it is? how so?
[2012/10/10 22:07] dch: in interests of time, I suggest we leave this for "NEXT TIME" then
[2012/10/10 22:07] eckoit: fine with me
[2012/10/10 22:07] noe: okay
[2012/10/10 22:08] dch: noe: well today we provide an erlang-based platform that runs JSON docs etc etc etc.
[2012/10/10 22:08] noe: #info pouch in futon discussion tabled until dale can join us
[2012/10/10 22:08] noe: dch: okay
[2012/10/10 22:08] dch: How ready are we (as a project, and as a community) to provide an apache-quality browser equivalent?
[2012/10/10 22:08] dch: #rhetorical
[2012/10/10 22:08] noe: okay
[2012/10/10 22:09]dch changed the topic tomeeting -  merge all the forks
[2012/10/10 22:09] dch: sweet, last topic, hopefully short.
[2012/10/10 22:09] dch: #topic merge all the forks
[2012/10/10 22:09] kocolosk: :)
[2012/10/10 22:09] noe: we need davisp and rnewson for this really
[2012/10/10 22:09] benoitc: hard one
[2012/10/10 22:09] jan____: +1
[2012/10/10 22:09] dch: TL;DR my impression as an erlang lightweight, is that there are only a handful (4) people who (a) can do this, and (b) know the background.
[2012/10/10 22:09] kocolosk: i believe rnewson feels a bit blocked until we make some decisions about source code layout and build system
[2012/10/10 22:09] dch: so: this is definitely a post 1.3 thing
[2012/10/10 22:10] kocolosk: absolutely
[2012/10/10 22:10] dch: but I would suggest 3 actions:
[2012/10/10 22:10] benoitc: also i would like to know the status of the otp thing I summarized
[2012/10/10 22:10] ASFBot: JIRA: Randall Leeds resolved COUCHDB-1155 - Etag send by list function does not depend on userCtx as 'Duplicate' [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-1155 ]
[2012/10/10 22:10] wendall911: +1 on OTP discussion
[2012/10/10 22:10] benoitc: i personnaly ready to start the work on that once we settle on a design
[2012/10/10 22:10] dch: 1 - cloudant to clarify how this relates to bigcouch & their product. No saga but just a bit of pixie dust, how do you see this working.
[2012/10/10 22:10] noe: benoitc: not had time to look at it. trying to focus my efforts on docs
[2012/10/10 22:11] dch: 2 - a general request to do as much of this in the open as possible. I realise that makes it a lot more work, but there will rarely be such an interesting and complex merge.
[2012/10/10 22:11] dch: this is a *huge* opportunity to get some of those rarely discussed "why does couchdb do this in that way" discussions on the table.
[2012/10/10 22:12] pstoll|away is now known aspstoll
[2012/10/10 22:12] dch: 3 - how can we help? open ended discussion for sure.
[2012/10/10 22:12] mainerror: I don't get 3
[2012/10/10 22:12] dch: benoitc: re (2) it would be great if you can give that some though vs refuge, but there's no rush to answer it
[2012/10/10 22:12] kocolosk: dch: no qualms about 2) from our end
[2012/10/10 22:13] jan____: ALRIGHT, all caught up on dev@ and commits@. declared bankrupcy on jira & users@. I’m officially back!
[2012/10/10 22:13] kocolosk: very little still needs to be open-sourced
[2012/10/10 22:13] noe: jan____: haha
[2012/10/10 22:13] kocolosk: and the stuff that is open-sourced tends not to have a private fork anywhere
[2012/10/10 22:13] noe: it seems clear to me that this not only needs to be punted until post 1.3
[2012/10/10 22:13] benoitc: dch: tje android thing in refuge is missing
[2012/10/10 22:13] dch: mainerror: if we have say 5 people (benoit, adam, bob x2, paul,  etc) who can actually do the work, how can we helpthem?
[2012/10/10 22:13] noe: ... it needs to be punted until after we've reached consensus about our new build
[2012/10/10 22:13] benoitc: soon it will be the same for ios but ...
[2012/10/10 22:14] kocolosk: noe: "consensus about our new build"
[2012/10/10 22:14] mainerror: dch got it thanks. :)
[2012/10/10 22:14] kocolosk: meaning self-contained erlang and whatnot?
[2012/10/10 22:14] noe: kocolosk: ?
[2012/10/10 22:14] benoitc: noe: np
[2012/10/10 22:14] benoitc: kocolosk: I think we need
[2012/10/10 22:14] noe: kocolosk: yes. our plans for the build system. the otp stuff benoitc posted about and rnewson feels blocked on
[2012/10/10 22:14] kocolosk: noe: ok, agreed
[2012/10/10 22:14] noe: we need to ratify this asap after 1.3 and just get cracking
[2012/10/10 22:15] noe: #info bigcouch merge dependant on community consensus around build system
[2012/10/10 22:15] benoitc: oh also i hav this _db_updates : https://github.com/refuge/couch_dbupdates
[2012/10/10 22:15] noe: #info build system discussion to be brought to a close asap after 1.3
[2012/10/10 22:15] benoitc: do you think it should land pre-1.3 ?
[2012/10/10 22:15] benoitc: err
[2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: post
[2012/10/10 22:16] noe: clarify "it"?
[2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: the code inside
[2012/10/10 22:16] kocolosk: dch: in re 1), couchdb and bigcouch are critical elements of our technology stack, but we're not in the business of supporting them directly, nor are we in the business of licensing closed-source forks
[2012/10/10 22:16] noe: benoitc: hmm?
[2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: noe: this is a long time asked feature
[2012/10/10 22:16] dch: kocolosk: Adam for sure, I think personally I know exactly where you are coming from. But it might be useful to spell it out.
[2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: can't rememebr the jira ticket
[2012/10/10 22:16] noe: benoitc: what is?
[2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: but it is really old
[2012/10/10 22:16] noe: benoitc: i dunno what you're talking about
[2012/10/10 22:17] tilgovi: benoitc: I would review it. There's been a ticket for a long time, I think.
[2012/10/10 22:17] benoitc: noe: allowing you to get db events on http level
[2012/10/10 22:17] noe: benoitc: _db_updates?
[2012/10/10 22:17] noe: benoitc: i would find the ticket, update the "fix version" to 1.3 and post a rationale in the comments
[2012/10/10 22:17] jan____: benoitc: +1 on committing whenever. I want that feature bad
[2012/10/10 22:17] noe: benoitc: dch will be clearing out jira so that we can use this to track what's in and out for the next release
[2012/10/10 22:17] benoitc: noe: an handler to get all db events on HTTP replacing the old api only accessible on via stdin/stdout
[2012/10/10 22:18] noe: benoitc: yeah, im basically saying just go for it if you think so
[2012/10/10 22:18] noe: benoitc: like jan____ is :)
[2012/10/10 22:18] benoitc: ok for the ticket
[2012/10/10 22:18] dch: re build system, I don't think any committer has said NAY to OTP + rebar.
[2012/10/10 22:18] noe: nope
[2012/10/10 22:18] dch: and finding a way to wrap autotools into that
[2012/10/10 22:18] noe: i am sure we can figure it out
[2012/10/10 22:18] jan____: ack
[2012/10/10 22:18] kocolosk: that'd be great -- are our distro experts ok with it?
[2012/10/10 22:19] noe: that'd be me? and...?
[2012/10/10 22:19] dch: #info refer to https://github.com/seth/rebar-tools for dependency locking
[2012/10/10 22:19] kocolosk: it = bundling erlang instead of relying on the erlang debian package, for example
[2012/10/10 22:19] noe: ah. well, debian would not ship it like that for sure
[2012/10/10 22:19] wendall911: If build system doesn't get redone for 1.3. There is a bunch of cleanup that should happen. A lot of 0.9 era cruft still there. Was cleaned up considerably, but could use some attention.
[2012/10/10 22:19] tilgovi: we can find a way not to do that
[2012/10/10 22:19] noe: so i am not sure what downtream packages would do
[2012/10/10 22:19] kocolosk: noe: yeah, that's where i was headed
[2012/10/10 22:19] kocolosk: tilgovi: not to do what?
[2012/10/10 22:19] mainerror: Sorry for cross posting but is the Wiki down?
[2012/10/10 22:19] noe: wendall911: do you want to take point on that?
[2012/10/10 22:19] tilgovi: not to ship the bundled erlang
[2012/10/10 22:19] jan____: wendall911: do we have a summary or list of stuff that needs work?
[2012/10/10 22:19] noe: mainerror: ask in #asfinfra
[2012/10/10 22:20] tilgovi: in a downstream package
[2012/10/10 22:20] benoitc: it is possible to  use release with deb packaging system though
[2012/10/10 22:20] Wohali: distros won't want a bundled erlang, but a good packaging setup will support including it or not including it
[2012/10/10 22:20] wendall911: jan____: no, but I'll come up with a list from memory. I'm sure you remember a couple things that came up.
[2012/10/10 22:20] noe: yeah, packagers would have to figure out how to disentangle it
[2012/10/10 22:20] jan____: mainerror: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/wiki.apache.org
[2012/10/10 22:20] tilgovi: What Wohali said
[2012/10/10 22:20] kocolosk: oof
[2012/10/10 22:20] wendall911: noe: yeah, I'd be cool with cleaning that up a bit.
[2012/10/10 22:20] noe: Wohali: ++!
[2012/10/10 22:20] kocolosk: ok
[2012/10/10 22:20] Wohali: debian packaging, sure. in debian's repos, not necessairly
[2012/10/10 22:20] noe: Wohali: +1
[2012/10/10 22:20] jan____: wendall911: awesome, put em in a mail or jira?
[2012/10/10 22:20] kocolosk: sounds like a load of fun
[2012/10/10 22:20] dch: let's not get too off track here.
[2012/10/10 22:21] Wohali: again i'm already signed up for packaging with wendall911, we can take that offline
[2012/10/10 22:21] wendall911: jan____: since it's from memory, I think -dev list to get feedback then JIRA
[2012/10/10 22:21] noe: wendall911: are you talking about build cruft?
[2012/10/10 22:21] wendall911: noe: yes
[2012/10/10 22:21] benoitc: you don't need to bundle erlang in a release : https://github.com/refuge/rcouch/tree/master/package/deb
[2012/10/10 22:21] dch: packaging & bundling erlang: my personal experience (& that of basho and IIRC cloudant) is we need to do it. The distro/packaging view might disagree.
[2012/10/10 22:21] jan____: wendall911: jira is copied to dev@ :D
[2012/10/10 22:21] tilgovi: is this still on topic?
[2012/10/10 22:21] mainerror: Thanks jan____
[2012/10/10 22:21] dch: tilgovi: no :-)
[2012/10/10 22:21] wendall911: jan____: ah, good point. Will start there.
[2012/10/10 22:21] jan____: wendall911: either way though
[2012/10/10 22:21] noe: #action wendall911 to take point on cleaning up build 0.9 cruft
[2012/10/10 22:21] dch: re merging forks, are we done? did we get any actions from that?
[2012/10/10 22:22] noe: #action Wohali to help wendall911 with build system work
[2012/10/10 22:22] Wohali: dch: Yup we're all in line here
[2012/10/10 22:22] noe: dch a few
[2012/10/10 22:22] noe: i think we're done folks.
[2012/10/10 22:22] noe: AOB?
[2012/10/10 22:22] dch: #action kocolosk to provide woolly update on how cloudant and bigcouch and couchdb fit together in the NEW WORLD ORDER
[2012/10/10 22:22] dch: yup
[2012/10/10 22:22] kocolosk: hah
[2012/10/10 22:22] noe: aob?
[2012/10/10 22:22] dch: I have 1
[2012/10/10 22:23] noe: shoot
[2012/10/10 22:23] dch: I am setting up a Learn to Hack on CouchDB / Erlang email list following in Wohali's footsteps, and based on my own shameless need to do better erlangs.
[2012/10/10 22:23] dch: I think a separate list would make sense.
[2012/10/10 22:23] dch: doing that on dev@ is going to be spammy
[2012/10/10 22:23] noe: erlang@couchdb.a.o?
[2012/10/10 22:24] dch: noe: that would be cool, maybe hack@ to avoid confusion with "how do I use couch"
[2012/10/10 22:24] dch: no idea how to set it up
[2012/10/10 22:24] noe: i can get it set up
[2012/10/10 22:24] dch: sweet
[2012/10/10 22:24] noe: if we agree its a good idea
[2012/10/10 22:24] dch: I agree
[2012/10/10 22:24] Wohali: i'll support it
[2012/10/10 22:24] noe: how about learn@couchdb or bootstrap@couchdb?
[2012/10/10 22:24] mainerror: +1
[2012/10/10 22:25] dch: bootstrap implies I'm running a startup
[2012/10/10 22:25] mainerror: +1 on hack@
[2012/10/10 22:25] noe: hehe, only if you have that experience
[2012/10/10 22:25] noe: i dont like hack
[2012/10/10 22:25] dch: notes the wine bottle is almost empty, as is our meeting timelimit
[2012/10/10 22:25] chewbranca: I'm interested in it as well, whatever the name
[2012/10/10 22:25] noe: lets not bikeshed tthe name
[2012/10/10 22:25] kocolosk: heh
[2012/10/10 22:25] benoitc: hum we shouldn'tn't have too much channels
[2012/10/10 22:25] noe: #action noe to set up a LYSE mailing list
[2012/10/10 22:25] wendall911: agrees with benoitc
[2012/10/10 22:25] dch: benoitc: agreed.
[2012/10/10 22:26] jan____: horse@couchdb.apache.org
[2012/10/10 22:26] noe: benoitc: if it fails it fails and we shut the list down
[2012/10/10 22:26] dch: ok any other bikeshed items?
[2012/10/10 22:26] mainerror: Definitely horse@
[2012/10/10 22:26] noe: why horse pls?
[2012/10/10 22:26] dch: horse@yourhairybutt
[2012/10/10 22:26] mainerror: :D
[2012/10/10 22:26] benoitc: right
[2012/10/10 22:26] noe: AOB?
[2012/10/10 22:26] dch: we are done
[2012/10/10 22:26] benoitc: i start to like this jira bit
[2012/10/10 22:26] mainerror: \o/
[2012/10/10 22:26] dch: hey everybody many thanks
[2012/10/10 22:26] noe: (any other business)
[2012/10/10 22:27] benoitc: bot
[2012/10/10 22:27] dch: this has been fun.
[2012/10/10 22:27] kocolosk: cheers, thanks for setting this up
[2012/10/10 22:27] noe: yep! cya all next weeeek
[2012/10/10 22:27] noe: #endmeeting
[2012/10/10 22:27] wendall911: Wohali: email or PM me about a future meeting time. I'm spent for today, but free tomorrow or friday.
[2012/10/10 22:27] dch: I'd like to thank my bot Noah Slater. We were sure he was a script, now its confirmed

Meeting20121010 (last edited 2012-10-18 11:42:25 by DaveCottlehuber)