#apache-axis
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        =-=     Topic for #apache-axis is “Axis2 Face-To-Face in Sri Lanka”
        =-=     Topic for #apache-axis was set by GlenD on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:19:15 AM
        Chinthaka       Hi all
        Chinthaka       Dasarath is doing a ppt on data binding
        Chinthaka       Glen suggested to have our own data binding tool
        Chinthaka       as well
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        Deepal  dasarath is doing databinding presentation
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        Srinath dasrath is prresenting encoding
        Srinath pluggable data binding is the subject
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        Srinath we discuss the xmlbeans and ajxb
        Srinath jaxb
        Srinath have look at the sample of skelteon and stubs'
        Srinath decided it is ok to recode gen the stubs and skeltons if the service switches the data binding tool
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        Chinthaka       meaning, data binding can be set per service basis
        Ajith   We are in the data binding discussion
        Chinthaka       Glen : OM has an interface to getObjectValue()
        Chinthaka       which returns for example java.awt.image
        Chinthaka       if node contains an image
        Chinthaka       Ajith : the timetable link in the wiki seems like not working for me :(
        {eng}bar4ka     hi, what time is it there ?
        Chinthaka       9.24 a.m.
        {eng}bar4ka     wow, here 0.24 am
        Deepal  hmm
        Ajith   Chinthak : hold on Will look
        {eng}bar4ka     Chinthaka, so are you Asian ?
        Deepal  BTW where r u ?
        Chinthaka       Srinath suggests to have a databinding layer on top of OM
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        Ajith   try this
        Ajith   http://people.apache.org/~ajith/summit/detailed-time-slot.html
        Chinthaka       ok, thankx
        Deepal  problem with xml bean and arrays
        Srinath dasrath says it might be tricky yo implements encoding interface
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        Srinath I thought it is easy .. but let us see
        Srinath may be not that easy
        Srinath should me have the inbuild databinding thing too
        {eng}bar4ka     show is apache2 compared to apache1 with respect to performance ?
        {eng}bar4ka     show = how
        Chinthaka       bar4ka, this is not a general discussion
        Chinthaka       we are scribing the stuff going in the on going axis 2 summit
        Chinthaka       so this may not be the good time to ask questions, sorry abt it :(
        Chinthaka       evaluating to which extent we need our own data binding tool
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        Chinthaka       compared to the option of using xml beans
        {eng}bar4ka     Chinthaka: ok, can i suggest ?
        Chinthaka       identified following as the problems of using XMLBeans
        Deepal  bar4ka : sure
        Chinthaka       1. if there is some thing wrong, we don;t have control over that
        Chinthaka       2. XML beans doesn;t support MTOM
        Ajith   for the axis 2 perf results
        Ajith   http://people.apache.org/~ajith/Axis-Perf-Report/PerformanceTestReport.htm
        Ajith   have a look at this
        Chinthaka       Dims : Do you want to add some more ?
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        {eng}bar4ka     I think the new axis 2 role as basic infraestructure provider has little to do with databinding, i guess another sub-project can do this
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        {eng}bar4ka     and it will be great if it provides easy support for other major databinding tools too
        {eng}bar4ka     What do you think Chinthaka ?
        Chinthaka       yeah, I agree
        Chinthaka       we will definitely provide and now also allowed to have support for other data binding tools
        Chinthaka       well, as u said its a good idea to have a small sub project to give axis 2 its own data binding tool
        Chinthaka       so bar4ka why don't you step forward and help us by meeting that challenge :)
        {eng}bar4ka     what challenge do you refer, make axis 2 own data binding tool ?
        Chinthaka       yeah
        dasarath        any existing data-binding tools for axis c++
        {eng}bar4ka     i will need to much time to introduce myself better into axis 2
        {eng}bar4ka     to = too
        Chinthaka       summing up data binding discussion
        Chinthaka       1. support MTOM / XOP
        Chinthaka       2. pluggable data binding support
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        chathura        candidate:
        chathura        xml beans
        chathura        jaxb
        chathura        castor
        chathura        and our very own:)
        Chinthaka       3. SwA support
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        Chinthaka       4. wdsl2java and java2wsdl support for all
        chathura        ok MTOM presentation comming up
        Ajith   after tea :D
        Chinthaka       Ajith : +1
        chathura        current discussion....
        chathura        Sanjiva: there are 150 languages that compiles to JVM
        chathura        "Axis 2 should be engineered(if possible) so that it will be the SOAP stack for all those languges
        dasarath        axis 2 will comprise of java handlers and non-java service implementation
        Lilantha        make handlers in java
        Lilantha        and call services written in nay languages
        Lilantha        EIS?
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        Lilantha        can we levarage connector architecture
        Lilantha        or JNI
        Lilantha        or JMS??
        dasarath        provider is responsible for calling the service implementation which may be implemented in any language but how it does that is immaterial
        dasarath        if it is C/C++ then it is JNI
        Lilantha        yep
        Chinthaka       JNI is calling other C ++ impls
        Chinthaka       for example
        chathura        well thats no the exact isssue
        Lilantha        may be using connector architecture?
        Chinthaka       I wrote a provider which works with a jscript service
        Chinthaka       so basicallt the service is jscript
        chathura        issue is if we are providing support for other languages we should.t rethink our databinding stuff and make it extensible for other languaes(other than java)
        Lilantha        seralize in a language neutral way
        chathura        yah but deserialisation isnt
        Chinthaka       TEA BREAK !!!!
        chathura        "MTOM after tea":)
        Lilantha        use CORBA concepts?
        {eng}bar4ka     while we drink tea, where are guys from ?
        {eng}bar4ka     i mean where are you from ?
        chathura        BAck to MTOM presentation
        sanjiva_        sri lanka :-)
        dasarath        where is thilina
        dasarath        ?
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        Deepal  Chinthka is doing Axiom presenation
        Deepal  binary to inforset discussion
        Deepal  DFDL
        Deepal  currenty we have three kind of builders
        Deepal  StAXOMBuilder
        Deepal  StAXSOAPBuilder
        Deepal  StAXMTOMBuilder
        Deepal  glen : what dose StAXSOAPBuilde do
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        Lilantha        do u have the URL to ppt?
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        Srinath Chinthaka is presenting OM
        Srinath he had falshy slides
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        Deepal  we will give the link
        Srinath http://people.apache.org/~ajith/summit/
        Srinath the link
        Deepal  http://people.apache.org/~ajith/summit/
        Deepal  AXIOM presentation is under that
        Srinath chinthaka is explaing the OM interfaces ..
        Srinath he explaisn the builders
        Srinath we talked about the fast WS and OM a bit
        Srinath if we can write a pull parser out of binary stream we are same
        Srinath if we do a new builder .. it might be bit tricky
        Srinath but not impossible
        Deepal  rename SOAPHeader to SOAPHeader bolck
        Deepal  in OM
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        Deepal  hi jaya Venket is here
        Deepal  LLOM is better preforming
        Deepal  than table model
        Deepal  LLOM -linked list model
        Deepal  now talking Desgn poins slide
        chathura        glen: why do you wannna cache when you serialize
        Jaya    hey venkat
        Srinath am in the middle of glen and dasrath arguing about OMElement.serialize(writer,cache);
        Deepal  do u want to talk to nvenkat
        Deepal  jaya : do u want to talk to nvenkat
        Srinath trying to not cought in the middle ;)
        Srinath it is getting intersting :D
        sanjiva_        pointer to Eran's presentation: http://people.apache.org/~ajith/summit/ (look for the axiom preesntation)
        Srinath we are getting to some where :)
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        Jaya    Deepal: check the personal chat window. I've sent you a message
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        chathura        decession: We need a method in om Elelment.complete();
        Deepal  there going an interesting discussion
        Deepal  with cache on/off
        Deepal  big arguments :)
        ashutosh        what does omElement.complete() do?
        Srinath it complete the element
        Srinath mans completly build the element
        Srinath means
        Deepal  if it is the root prase whole message and
        Deepal  builde SOAPEnevelop out of that
        ashutosh        presently is it done through detach method??
        Deepal  soory build
        ashutosh        that is if we do detach, it gets built completely if it wasn't
        Deepal  hmm yup
        chathura        yup remember the issue we had in the sample few days back
        ashutosh        yeah ... thats what i was thinking abt
        Jaya    was something done in addChildElement() of OMElement so that if a non-empty text node already is present extra non-text child nodes don't get added???
        Jaya    i.e. something like <billamount ...> 120 <taxPercentage> 8 </taxPercentage> </billamount> is not allowed
        chathura        another decession: In OM we should build upto the header as the handlers access the envelop ... but leave alone the body part untouched
        Jaya    ok! not an issue if om is only worried about XML
        chathura        Rational: to see whether we have must understand in the headers
        ashutosh        chathura: but then what happens when security comes into picture?
        chathura        nothing happens
        Deepal  remove cache argumnet from element.serlize(straemWriter , cache)
        chathura        if the security handler wants to access the body let him go ahead and access
        ashutosh        okk
        ashutosh        anything decided on data binding integration with AXIOM?
        Jaya    You mean even if cache is off, we are going to build till headers for sure!?!
        Deepal  yup:
        Deepal  we have to do that
        Deepal  else how can we find mustunderstand and all
        chathura        hang on
        Jaya    okay
        chathura        deepal:cool
        GlenD   There are two flags for caching - one on serialize() and one on getPullParser().
        GlenD   Either we should leave them both there, and provide a convenience method serialize(XmlStreamWriter) which defaults cache to false...
        GlenD   Or we remove the arguments from both and make it a builder-wide flag (builder.setCache(boolean))
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        dmwaters        {global notice} Hi all! In about 1.5 hours, I'm going to be rebooting the main US hub for a kernel update. This willbe the last of the fixes for the boxes that had the buggy kernel code. This reboot will also take down www.freenode.net briefly. Maintainence should only take about 10 minutes at the most. I apologize for the late notice.
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        Lilantha        bye all, good night...
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        Deepal  discsussing about MC serlilization
        Deepal  which is relly requird for RM
        Srinath we explaisn MTOM now
        Ajith   Guys the summit material page is updated now
        Ajith   the MTOM presentation is also there
        Srinath when the Transport Reciver recived a message from the transport we know that it is MTOM
        Ajith   http://people.apache.org/~ajith/summit/
        Srinath do we have a MTOM builder to build the OM
        Srinath glen said we need to seperate XOP and MTOM
        Srinath have a two level arch
        Srinath archi
        Srinath the XOP things is pluggable
        Srinath MTOM is XOP conntected to SOAP
        Srinath agreed
        Srinath comment accepted
        Srinath OMblob tries differd building
        Srinath we are in big discussion of making OM schema aware ...oops
        Srinath ;)
        Ajith   he he Here we are coming back to my "builder extensions"
        Ajith   :D
        Chinthaka       well I won again
        Chinthaka       :D
        Srinath thanks god :)
        Deepal  no schema aware parsing
        Deepal  in MTOM base64 content represent as OMText
        Srinath the OMtext has getText() and get data handler
        Deepal  the person who is going to use the axiom has to aware of that
        Srinath ye
        Deepal  buffering is done in MTOM
        Deepal  serilization
        Deepal  so discsscusing drawback of that
        Srinath give a Blob a CID
        Srinath OM blobs knows how they will be written later
        Deepal  so no buffring
        Deepal  OMblob has to to its own serialization
        Deepal  has to do
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        Deepal  talking little bit abt clinet side
        Deepal  client seide sender , how can we specify wt to use
        Deepal  in the client sid eand how client.xml look like
        Deepal  sid eand = side and
        Srinath api has the presenance, then conf file, then classapth tricks ect
        Deepal  is HTTP Mime and SMTP mime are same
        Deepal  mean format
        Deepal  header formt and bondry
        Deepal  boundery
        GlenD   boundary
        chathura        :)
        Deepal  wrting OM aware java mail like implementation
        Deepal  ?
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        Deepal  chinthka : do u have whole today chat log
        Chinthaka       yeah
        Chinthaka       but I'm not happy with the way my tool has formatted the chat log
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        Chinthaka       People are still having lunch here
        Srinath people are donw with eating and back
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        Deepal  talking about axis module
        Deepal  mean maven module
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        Chinthaka       decided to base axis 2 on jdk 1.4
        sanjiva Minimum Java config: JDK 1.4
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        Chinthaka       runtime will be on java 1.4
        Chinthaka       but for offline building java 1.5 is allowed
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        Chinthaka       package structure has bit of changes
        Chinthaka       the src will be removed
        Chinthaka       module/core/org
        Chinthaka       module/core/test
        Chinthaka       module/core/test-resources likewise
        Chinthaka       the ws-fx handlers will be in their own places
        Chinthaka       not under axis 2
        Chinthaka       so the followings will be handlers
        Chinthaka       sorry modules
        Chinthaka       1. core
        Chinthaka       2. OM
        Chinthaka       3. samples
        Chinthaka       4. WOM
        Chinthaka       5. server
        Chinthaka       well we reordered
        Chinthaka       1. OM
        Chinthaka       WOM
        Chinthaka       2. WOM
        Chinthaka       3. Core
        ashutosh        do we have module/core/org/apache/axis directly? shudn't a java in between, like module/core/java/org/apache be better
        Chinthaka       Ashu : No
        Chinthaka       coz we have two java
        Chinthaka       axis/trunk/*java*/module/core/*java*
        Chinthaka       see
        Chinthaka       here people are re-arranging the structure
        ashutosh        ok but then we shud have src instead of java, as now u'll have different structure for test and src directory
        guillaume_s     but we have *test* at the same level : axis/trunk/*java*/module/core/*test*/org/...
        Chinthaka       sorry
        Jaya    for setting up source path in eclipse it might be little annoying if you don't have a top level folder for all the source
        guillaume_s     src/src ?
        ashutosh        exactly
        Chinthaka       I've mentioned wrong
        Chinthaka       its like module/core/src
        Chinthaka       module/core/test
        Chinthaka       sorry :(
        ashutosh        ok, this looks fine :)
        guillaume_s     this is not a *usual* maven structure ...
        Jaya    perfectly fine
        Chinthaka       Guilaume : Why ???
        Chinthaka       are we gonna shape our project according to Maven
        Chinthaka       its just a build tool
        Chinthaka       :(
        guillaume_s     almost all maven projects have a src folder with all sources inside (java sources, test sources, resources, ...)
        Chinthaka       ohhhhhh
        guillaume_s     that can be confusing for developpers who are used to buil with maven
        Chinthaka       we just removed OM name from the package structure :( :( :(
        Chinthaka       its renamed to xml
        Jaya    but seperating test sources and code sources can help to set up IDEs with just the required contents
        Chinthaka       as it *will* contain some data binding stuff as well
        ashutosh        chinthaka, that looks good infact, why :( ??
        Jaya    OM renamed? me too :(
        Chinthaka       OM is a good name :(
        Chinthaka       Jaya, u with me ??
        Jaya    yup, we both with OM. But not to start a fight against the big wigs decision, though
        Ajith0213       :)
        Chinthaka       poor we :(
        ashutosh        anyways, what has been decided on data binding?
        Chinthaka       well but it has a meaning though
        =-=     Ajith0213 is now known as Ajith
        Chinthaka       we gonna have our own data binding as well
        ashutosh        no castor??
        Chinthaka       but we can plugin any data binding tool
        ashutosh        ok
        Chinthaka       Ashu : anything
        Jaya    Chintaka actually OM name in the initial when I tried to understand it was very confusing, being frank. If one were to write documentation the same would clrearly reflect.
        Chinthaka       JAXB, Castor, JAXMe, XMLBEans, u name it, we have it
        chathurah__     :)
        Chinthaka       well, is the current documentation not enough ?
        dasarath        :)
        Chinthaka       http://ws.apache.org/axis2/OMTutorial.html
        Jaya    The whole architecture we call OM at several places, the object model that is built inside is also called OM
        Chinthaka       the whole archi is AXIOM
        Chinthaka       and what is build inside is OM
        dasarath        isn't the "trade-mark" of OM is AXIOM
        dasarath        I would like to see an axiom module in the axis build
        Jaya    But OM is understood as a short for AXIOM, hence the confusion
        dasarath        OM=object model
        dasarath        period
        dasarath        I guess our classnames create this confusion
        Jaya    yeah yeah. now that after getting deep there doesn't seem any confusion. But when I started I had a lot confusion
        Chinthaka       thats how really good thing are
        Chinthaka       outside it seems really great
        Chinthaka       but inside .... :)
        Chinthaka       well this is the re-re-refined module structure
        dasarath        :) and OM is not any different
        Jaya    :)
        dasarath        but hopefully we will do some cleaning very soon
        Chinthaka       1. XML (OM + Data Binding impl + Data binding interfaces)
        Chinthaka       2. WOM
        Chinthaka       3. Core
        dasarath        -1 for xml
        Chinthaka       4. Server (Providers, Listeners)
        Chinthaka       5. Samples
        Chinthaka       6. Tool
        dasarath        xml is just one form of serialization
        Chinthaka       6. Tools
        Chinthaka       7. JCP
        Jaya    what happened to the transport stuff???
        dasarath        OM itself goes beyond the xml inforset
        Jaya    I think I'll have refactor my commonsHTTP effort once again then
        Chinthaka       they goes under core
        Chinthaka       Jaya, refactoring is nothing and usual thing :)
        Ajith   Jay - Only thing is the class locations change. not the packages
        Jaya    Yeah, trying to convince me of that fact
        ashutosh        what abt SOAP specific classes of OM? r they under xml too?
        Chinthaka       yeah
        Chinthaka       discussing that now
        Ajith   so probably you wont need to do naything except put the correct dependancies
        ashutosh        chinthaka, u wanted them to move outside?
        Jaya    Ajith: got it. earlier also I didn't do anything great
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        Chinthaka       Ashu : What do u mean ?
        ashutosh        u wanted om to take care of just xml infoset?
        Chinthaka       yeah, now too
        Chinthaka       and ppl have agreed for that
        Chinthaka       but its nice to have SOAP specific thing also ;)
        Chinthaka       so, bit of compramisation
        Deepal  new module structure
        Deepal  http://people.apache.org/~deepal/axis2f2f/moduels.JPG
        Chinthaka       deepal, u r too smart
        Chinthaka       :)
        Deepal  :)
        ashutosh        looks good :)
        Chinthaka       but u have missed jcp
        Chinthaka       :)
        Ajith   Deepal: you missed JCP
        Deepal  i will update that
        Chinthaka       transport stuff
        Chinthaka       all the senders goto core
        Chinthaka       all the listeners goto server
        ashutosh        what will JCP have?? :-S
        Chinthaka       SAAJ stuff u guys gonna do ;)
        Deepal  i updated the image sorry for mistake
        ashutosh        deepal u would also like to correct the filename to modules.JPG
        Chinthaka       are we giving him hard time ;)
        ashutosh        :)
        Deepal  oh ok
        guillaume_s     jcp should contains saaj (1.2 and next version ?), jaxrpc(1.1 and 2.0) APIs + axis impl
        Deepal  done
        Deepal  http://people.apache.org/~deepal/axis2f2f/modules.JPG
        Chinthaka       people now talk about the module interface
        Deepal  glen : engine is not stateless
        Deepal  srinath : it is not
        Chinthaka       Now we have a problem
        Chinthaka       whether Axis engine is stateless or not
        Deepal  what is Axisengine , wt it has
        Chinthaka       we have world war 4 here ;)
        dasarath        glen: "A Service has an associated cloud of state"
        Deepal  are we going to have mulitple axisengine
        dasarath        fox: Its actually a storm of state
        Deepal  per one transport
        Chinthaka       ;)
        Deepal  (dims asking)
        dasarath        :D
        Chinthaka       Deepal : Are u a commentator of a cricket match ??
        chathurah__     :)
        ashutosh        c'mon hez doin a better job than Ranjit Fernando ;)
        Chinthaka       well anyone can do better than him man ;)
        Chinthaka       now people are drawing some pictures and ruchith is taking some pictures
        dasarath        both sanjiva and glen are drawing pictures
        chathurah__     :)
        dasarath        people are talking about persistance in axis
        dasarath        what are the contexts that we should have?
        dasarath        ws-context, message-context, transport-context, ...
        Chinthaka       sanjiva proposed another architecture
        Chinthaka       a slightly different one
        dasarath        should we or should we not have session scope in axis 2.0
        Deepal  big discussion about scope
        Deepal  Engine conttext
        Deepal  Service conttext
        Deepal  module conttext
        Deepal  transport conttext
        Deepal  and message context
        Chinthaka       one can see the Sanjiva's proposal here
        Chinthaka       http://people.apache.org/~chinthaka/summit/IMG_0638.jpg
        Chinthaka       sorry changed the name of the file
        Chinthaka       http://people.apache.org/~chinthaka/summit/sanjiva_prop.jpg
        Deepal  http://people.apache.org/~deepal/axis2f2f/newarchi.JPG
        Deepal  new architecture purosed by Sanjiva
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        GlenD   -- It is possible for various components (services, etc) to access the various scopes... have to be careful about this. For instance, the AdminService is a service which affects the Registry. We need to continue to support this sort of thing.
        GlenD   -- A "two level" registry seems like a good idea by default. There is the "persistent" registry, which is the one that corresponds to the disk/database version of the configuration. If you write to that one via APIs, you end up writing to persistent storage. Then there's the "dynamic" registry which sits on top.
        GlenD   ...the dynamic one lets you do things like deploy asynchronous callback endpoints (which come and go) without messing up the on-disk version of your config.
        GlenD   -- We need to continue to support Axis 1's concept of scope chaining, where it should be possible to ask for things from the MessageContext which are supplied by whatever context level at which they are first encountered (i.e. setting SEND_XSI_TYPES at the engine level makes that setting available to all services which haven't overridden that themselves)
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        dims    http://yfilter.cs.berkeley.edu/
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        Chinthaka       hey guys look at this
        Chinthaka       https://stax2dom.dev.java.net/
        Chinthaka       seems they have done some of our work
        Deepal  hi ashu, and jaya - venkat here. Do you guys have any questions for the topics so far discussed here?
        ashutosh        hi venkat, we'll keep on shooting as and when we have questions
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        Deepal  dicussing about module
        Deepal  init() method
        Deepal  what we give as argument
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        Chinthaka       today chat log, so far is now hosted @ http://wiki.apache.org/ws/Frontpage/Axis2/f2f_2/Scribe30
        Chinthaka       but I'm not happy abt formatting
        ashutosh        r u guys done 4 the day?
        Deepal  noe yrt
        Deepal  yet
        Chinthaka       nope
        ashutosh        ok
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        Chinthaka       at last sort of decided the module interface
        Chinthaka       Srinath will post the Module interface later
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        Deepal  interface module
        Deepal  ppublic void init(ModuleContext context);
        Deepal  public void shutdown()
       <Deepal> public void letmeTeakWSDLCodeGen
<Deepal> ()
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<Deepal> hi Farhaan
<farhaan> Hi Deepal
<farhaan> how is it going ? any new innovations ?
<Deepal> yup
<Deepal> lot of new things
<Deepal> some changes to architecture
<farhaan> great...I will read it on the wikis
<farhaan> oh really?
<Deepal> farhaan pls look at ur personal window
<farhaan> i saw it...thanks for the link
<Deepal> wc
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<Deepal> WS police and module
<Deepal> how the chain is going to change depending on the ws police
<Deepal> we are done for the day
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<chathurah__> bye guys
<Deepal> see u all tomorow
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<Jaya> Okay guys, good work (and fun) for the second day too
<Jaya> see ya tom. Someone post the complete log to wiki. Module interface discussion is missing in the earlier post
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