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= PPMC Proposal = = PPMCs =
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To make Incubating project learn to govern themselves and govern themselves at the same time, each project gets a PPMC, that is a Project PMC (is this right?) that works similarly to a PMC but refers to the Incuabtor PMC instead of the board. To make Incubating project learn to govern themselves and govern themselves at the same time, each project has a PPMC (a place where to practice having a PMC) that works similarly to a PMC but reports to the Incubator PMC instead of the board.
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== Who should be on each ppmc? == == Members of the PPMC ==
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 * all PMC members of the future PMC (committers + landing PMC members)
 * all Incubator PMC members (not just mentors?)
 * project developers-committers
* landing PMC members that want to help (if there is a landing PPMC)
 * Incubator PMC members that want to help
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This means that the Mentors would be the only ones that must stay also on the other project mailing lists. The Mentors are the only ones /required/ to participate on the -dev list. The other Incubator members would have to "catch up" to the extent that PPMC discussion requires external context.
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The PPMC would consist of *all* PMC members from both the landing PMC and
the Incubator PMC, plus the committers.
The Mentors would be the ones required to participate on the -dev list.
The rest would have to "catch up" to the extent that PPMC discussion requires external context. Otherwise, it won't scale.

Committers would be on the PPMC but not on the Incubator PMC.

This might bear tweaking, but for Incubator purposes, the project Committers would be part of the Incubator PMC. If this
structure were adopted by Jakarta, however, each sub-project would have a PPMC, and the Jakarta PMC would be the union of all.
Incubator PMC members not engaged in active development or discussion on a project are still able to eventually intervene in quality of observers. They should refrain from voting on project decisions unless really necessary, thus acting as vetoers of last resort.
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Development and discussions will still go on the dev lists, and only Mentors have to be there. Development and discussions go on the dev lists, where the Mentors are the ones doing active oversight.
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Yes, but the status update issue would occur on the PPMC list, which *IS* the union of the Incubator PMC, the Cocoon PMC and the Lenya Committers. That is what the notion of reporting to the "main Incubator PMC" is a non-issue. The correct issue is reporting to the PPMC. The status updates are posted to general@incubator.apache.org, prior ACK from any Incubator PMC member.
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The PPMC would be the means by which a project is governed. The PPMC list is the private list for its use. The PMC is for the Incubator, itself. == FAQ ==
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As I am envisioning this working, if there is an issue to be addressed by the PPMC, and that issue is to be discussed in public, the PPMC would have to subscribe to the public list for discussion. There would be a summary posting to the PPMC list letting everyone know of the issue, with references to the archives. That appears to balance providing oversight with being overwhelmed. Joe Developer: "So, how does this 'incubation' thing work then?"
Website: "Well, we want to do our best to make new projects feel
welcome at the ASF, and we want the ASF to feel comfortable bringing
the new project under its hood. This requires a get-to-know-the-ropes
period, which we call incubation. We establish something dubbed a
PPMC, which is a mailing list where a project's core group learns how
to deal with all those 'serious' intricacies that come with being a part
of the ASF, like quarterly reports, voting in committers, STATUS
file management, voting procedures, etc etc.
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== What to do to start PPMCs == Also, we'll take a good look at any IP/licensing/copyright/trademark
issues that may exist during the incubation process. As soon as it is
clear that a project has truely captured the ASF spirit and all legal
issues are sorted out, the project leaves incubation and lives on on
its own."
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JFDI applies. Every PMC member and every ASF member that had something to say about the PPMC idea
was basically in favour. We have consensus on the broad plan; enough of a mandate to get things underway. Create
a PPMC battle plan and execute.
Joe Developer: "So, what is this PPMC thing?"
Website: "A mailing list where the project's core group learns what
it means to be part of the ASF. To help them do that, there's a group
of ASF people called the Incubator PMC. Also, there will often be
other interested ASF members to help out and answer questions."
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It seems to me this entails the following: Joe PPMC Member: "So how do I...?"
Website: "We don't have clean answers to most of those questions
(yet). Just post an e-mail about the question/issue/problem, and we'll
figure things out together."
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1. ask infrastructure@ to create a new set of mailing lists

  {{{$proj-ppmc@incubator.apache.org}}}

2. get a few moderators && incubator pmc members in
place for each, have them subscribe the appropriate people
to it, or at least send out the invitations

3. send out welcome messages on the newly created
mailing lists, explaining purpose and basic organisation,
with appropriate disclaimers

4. figure out what issues we can and cannot deal with
inside a PPMC as we go along**


** big design up front doesn't work well for software;
I think it works even less well for communities.
Joe PPMC Member: "I don't have any more questions!"
Website: "Well, good! Go on then, out of the womb, go and
manage things on your own. By the way, would you be interested
in a position on the Incubator PMC to help out new projects?"

PPMCs

Description

To make Incubating project learn to govern themselves and govern themselves at the same time, each project has a PPMC (a place where to practice having a PMC) that works similarly to a PMC but reports to the Incubator PMC instead of the board.

Members of the PPMC

  • project developers-committers
  • landing PMC members that want to help (if there is a landing PPMC)
  • Incubator PMC members that want to help

The Mentors are the only ones /required/ to participate on the -dev list. The other Incubator members would have to "catch up" to the extent that PPMC discussion requires external context.

Incubator PMC members not engaged in active development or discussion on a project are still able to eventually intervene in quality of observers. They should refrain from voting on project decisions unless really necessary, thus acting as vetoers of last resort.

Reporting the the main Incubator PMC

Development and discussions go on the dev lists, where the Mentors are the ones doing active oversight.

The status updates are posted to general@incubator.apache.org, prior ACK from any Incubator PMC member.

FAQ

Joe Developer: "So, how does this 'incubation' thing work then?" Website: "Well, we want to do our best to make new projects feel welcome at the ASF, and we want the ASF to feel comfortable bringing the new project under its hood. This requires a get-to-know-the-ropes period, which we call incubation. We establish something dubbed a PPMC, which is a mailing list where a project's core group learns how to deal with all those 'serious' intricacies that come with being a part of the ASF, like quarterly reports, voting in committers, STATUS file management, voting procedures, etc etc.

Also, we'll take a good look at any IP/licensing/copyright/trademark issues that may exist during the incubation process. As soon as it is clear that a project has truely captured the ASF spirit and all legal issues are sorted out, the project leaves incubation and lives on on its own."

Joe Developer: "So, what is this PPMC thing?" Website: "A mailing list where the project's core group learns what it means to be part of the ASF. To help them do that, there's a group of ASF people called the Incubator PMC. Also, there will often be other interested ASF members to help out and answer questions."

Joe PPMC Member: "So how do I...?" Website: "We don't have clean answers to most of those questions (yet). Just post an e-mail about the question/issue/problem, and we'll figure things out together."

Joe PPMC Member: "I don't have any more questions!" Website: "Well, good! Go on then, out of the womb, go and manage things on your own. By the way, would you be interested in a position on the Incubator PMC to help out new projects?"

PpmcProposal (last edited 2009-09-20 23:06:12 by localhost)